Simply Julia | Julia Turshen
Simply Julia
110 Easy Recipes For Healthy Comfort Food
By Julia Turshen
Intro: Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City sitting at her dining room table, talking to cookbook authors.
Julia Turshen: My name is Julia Turshen and I am here to talk about my brand new cookbook, Simply Julia and I am so excited to talk to Suzy about it.
Suzy Chase: You kicked off the cookbook with the phrase. "I loved making this book." Now, I think it's because this is your most personal cookbook yet, but what was it about this particular cookbook that you loved?
Julia Turshen: I really loved this question. I loved so much about making this book. You mentioned it's my most personal book yet, and that is true and that is definitely part of why I loved it, but to be more specific, the process of making it really personal meant sharing things like a lot of old family photos in this, sharing photos of friends in it so it was sort of bringing up all these really wonderful and the happy memories about the people I've shared food with, so many of the stories in the book, you know, that preceed the recipes are about just people in my life. So it made me feel very deeply connected to so many people. And, you know, I started working on the book before the pandemic, but I finished working on the book during the pandemic so that feeling of connection feels more important than ever so that is part of why I loved making the book. I also just love every recipe in the book, which might sound like obvious, like duh, like who wouldn't like why would you put a recipe you don't love in your cookbook, but I really love these recipes. I loved working on them. I loved eating all the food and another thing I really loved was my wife Grace was, I mean, she's always been very, very supportive of all my work, but she was extra supportive with this book because when I was testing the recipes for it or when it was the time and the process to do so, she had just closed her business of 15 years and had free time and so she volunteered to test every single recipe in the book, which meant I got to sit in my kitchen while my amazing smart, wonderful wife was cooking everything and it was such an incredible process and it made me feel just super, just not only supported by her, but super like close to her and I think the book is much better because of her involvement in that way. I loved the publishing team I worked with. I mean, I could go on and on. I just had a really positive experience and as you know, cause we've talked before I've worked on a lot of books, so I feel like me expressing to you how much I loved working on this book is based on the, I would say very privileged and maybe unusual position I'm in, which is that I have a lot of other experiences to compare it to, and I've loved every book I've worked on, but this was just like this incredibly positive journey and yeah, I am so happy with it. I'm so happy to talk to you about it. And I appreciate you asking that question it's nice to reflect on.
Suzy Chase: You submitted the first draft of this at the end of February, 2020 right before we went into lockdown here in New York State, did the pandemic have any influence on changes or pivots you made to this book?
Julia Turshen: It did, not really in terms of the recipes. I mean, those were all locked in at that point but it completely changed how this book was photographed and I was planning on photographing the book with like a big team of people, which is how I have worked on pretty much every cookbook I've done and I've usually worked with a photographer who might have an assistant and there's usually someone helping with some props, you know, dropping extra things off, stuff like that. So, you know, it sort of takes a village and I was planning to form this, this village and have all these people in my house and also maybe rent a house nearby so they could stay there and, you know, we would have camp cookbook, photo shoot for like a week and that all became very just not possible and just, you know, at that time just felt like there was no safe way to do it and it also just was not in any way, essential, you know, this is March, 2020. So I, yeah, I was actually ready to put the book on hold. It didn't seem like a priority. And then I remembered that I had known that this food photographer, Melina Hammer lived right near where I live, which is interesting because we live in a pretty random spo, we live a couple of hours outside of New York City and we hadn't met before. I mean, we had connected before, but we had never worked together. And I just thought, you know, before putting this on the shelf for a while, like reach out and see what she's up to and see if she might be game to work on this. So I did and she was totally game and we did a photo shoot unlike any I've ever done before and so it was just me and her and we actually were never in the same room together. I would prepare everything at home, drop it off in containers, like on her doorstep and she would put all the finishing touches on it so she is kind of like a unicorn if you ask me, because she's an amazing photographer, but also an amazing food stylist and an amazing prop stylist. It's very rare to find all three of those things in one person. Sometimes you find two out of three, usually someone just concentrates on one of those, but Melina does all three and does them all really well and that was that we took like a month to do it. I planned out every photo, you know, I gave her like detailed notes for what I wanted each photo to look like. I pulled some like inspiration photos for each one like I love the angle of this, you know, that kind of thing. We were texting all day, you know, you want the spoon there? Should I move it here? Like that kind of thing. But yeah, it was really, I don't know when I think about it now, it really was just such an exercise in this like incredibly direct communication, which I just think is so valuable and to me that has been a big lesson of just living through this pandemic is just the value of clear and direct communication whether it's with friends or family, like all of us, you know, letting each other, know what our boundaries are like, that kind of thing. Like there's a lot that I definitely am ready to leave behind from the last year as I think all of us are, but there are a lot of things that I think have been really important skills we've all developed just as like a world, as like a culture that I think are worth taking with us and to, you know, the after time. So anyway, that's a tangent.
Suzy Chase: One of those things that I think we've all been dealing with is, our fridge and cooking every day. So you have a list of five things that you always have in your refrigerator. And can you tell me about Better Than Bouillon? I've never heard of that.
Julia Turshen: I would be happy to tell you about it cause I love this stuff. So they sell cubes like bouillon cubes, you know, I think we've all seen them before they're used around the world, but this company also sells by the way, this is not sponsored, I've never spoken to this company. I mean, they are welcome to get in touch if they like the podcast, I just truly love this stuff. So they also sell this like paste to add to some boiling water like you would add a bouillon cube and you know, you get like instant stock. It's not the same as like, you know, simmering chicken, bones and vegetables or just vegetables, you know, whatever kind of stock you're making. It's not the same as doing that. And I just really believe in the sort of marathon of home cooking and not the sprint. I'm a daily home cook. I think just as you said, so many of us are these days and I have been one for years and you know, I love simmering and chicken broth all day. I love eating that, but I also love reaching in my fridge and mixing a spoonful of this stuff just as you would like miso paste, you know, into hot water and having something that's really good and is totally like good enough. And you know, maybe I just totally like asked my potential sponsorship, but I think
Suzy Chase: That's their new tagline "Better Than Bouillon it's good enough!" haha
Julia Turshen: But I think sometimes good enough is great. You know, I don't think every meal we eat has to be the best meal we ever ate and sometimes something that's just really good and really solid is like just what you need. And I often use that bouillon paste, the Better Than Bouillon. I'll make that. And then I add some frozen greens, whether they're ones I bought from the store or sometimes in the spring or summer, like I'll buy extra from the farms in our area, which sounds very like romantic, right? But we just live by a lot of farms like that's the area we're in. And so I'll blanch a bunch of stuff and freeze it. So I'll mix those into that, you know, super quick broth and add a little like cooked rice or pasta if I have some in the fridge, that's something Grace, my wife, and I eat all the time like, we'll put some cheese on top of that. That is a go-to meal. It takes like no time at all and it's so satisfying and yeah, it's not like homemade stock and fresh greens from the market and all that, but it's really good and it makes us feel really good. And I just feel like those types of meals are really important to talk about.
Suzy Chase: In the cookbook you wrote, "Healthy food isn't just what I eat it's about connecting myself more closely with where my food comes from and honoring, compensating, and protecting the people who grow harvest, distribute, clean, stock and sell the food I eat." I just adore how you repositioned the idea of healthy food for those of us who hear the term healthy food and, you know, walk the other way.
Julia Turshen: Well I appreciate you bringing this up because this to me is like one of the most important parts of this book. You know, healthy is in the subtitle of the book. 110 Easy Recipes For Healthy Comfort Food and I feel like every page of this book is me just attempting to define what I mean by that term, healthy comfort and I think healthy is a word that has been so overused. It just is kind of like meaningless in certain ways and I think it's also used in ways that are, to me, the opposite of healthy, I think healthy is often used as a synonym for skinny. And I think healthy and skinny are not the same things by any means. I think that's really, really important to clarify. I think healthy is a word that's often used in cookbooks or in other types of food packaging, like anywhere where there's like words on food, trying to sell you something. I think the word healthy is often used in a way to like restrict something. And I just really wanted to interrogate the meaning of this word healthy and really celebrate all of its various definitions. You know, I think healthy is something we can and should all define for ourselves. I think it's a very individual thing. And for me, when I think about what do I consider healthy? Like when do I feel healthy when it comes to what I cook and eat, it's just as you know, the line you, you pulled out there, it's, it's all about feeling connected, but I do feel a lot of gratitude I eat. And to me that's a huge part of feeling healthy. And I also try as best I can to feel pleasure every time I eat, you know, to feel like I'm enjoying what I eat, I'm eating what I exactly what I want to eat. I'm not denying myself anything. I'm not restricting anything. I'm not feeling any guilt about what I'm eating. I think all of these things tend to come up under this kind of term healthy food. And I just really want to push against that. Like I think being healthy is something we're all entitled to and I think feeling healthy means feeling good about ourselves and not feeling bad about ourselves. And, you know, I think it's kind of as simple as that. So yeah, those are some extra thoughts, but thank you for bringing that up.
Suzy Chase: You know, honestly I maybe have one healthy, in air quotes, cookbook on this podcast every few years, and I've always struggled to find the words to tell the publicist no thank you and you just kind of put it into words in like a very smart way, why this healthy thing is code for something else.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. You know, to me, it's, it's honestly, you know, this might sound really serious, but it is really serious. Like it's dangerous. I think like, I think it's a word that is sort of unregulated, you know, the way like natural is used on different food packaging. Like it doesn't actually mean anything. And you know, I probably shouldn't say that cause I put the word healthy on my book but I guess, you know, I'm now having the opportunity to sit with you and tell you exactly what I mean by it. And I just feel like it often means something that is kind of dangerous. Like I think it's often, you know, disordered eating in disguise, it's restrictive eating and those types of things are just to me, they scare me. And I say that from a very personal place because I had a very disordered relationship to eating and to food for so long. So that comes from like a very personal place. And I think a lot of what I attempted to do in Simply Julia is to, I guess, in some ways sort of reclaim that word and just feel good about being healthy and celebrate that and to hopefully encourage as many people as I can to feel good. You know, it's not a mistake that there's a loaf of bread on the cover of this book that was intentional. Like there's, you know, the cover is a picture of me in my kitchen, it's my home kitchen and I'm surrounded by some food and fresh produce and stuff things you would imagine typically see on the cover of like a healthy book, but there's also a big loaf of bread and that was like very on purpose 'cause I think that's something that gets avoided, you know, in these quote unquote healthy books and you know, so there's a lot of things like that. Like a lot of just little, um, what do you call them? Like sort of Easter eggs or whatever.
Suzy Chase: Like subliminal messages.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. I think I'm trying to Trojan horse a lot of things in this book.
Suzy Chase: Well that brings me to this essay of yours in this book. And I cannot tell you how much it resonated with me. And I'm sure everyone's telling you this. "On The Worthiness Of Our Bodies" and I cannot thank you enough for writing it. So in that essay you wrote "For as long as I've always loved food, I've always been as conflicted about consuming it." Body image for me has been a huge issue in my life. That's why I podcast no one can see me. I'm behind the microphone. And I was prepared to ask you if you had heard Amy Porterfield's new limited series podcast called Talking Body and then last night, ping, the new episode came up and you were in it. And I was like, what? And I told my husband, I go, Bob, she's never going to believe me that I was going to ask about this.
Julia Turshen: Well, I totally believe you. I feel like right now, just as we're talking and hearing about that essay resonating with you, that you were listening to that podcast, maybe it sounds like maybe reading the essay around the same time. And then, you know, I popped up on the podcast right before we were going to talk like this type of moment to me, like right now, like in the present moment, I know that this isn't a live podcast so everyone who might listen to this isn't with us right now, but they will be, you know, and this type of moment that I just feel we're experiencing now, or at least I feel is just a reminder to me about how valuable it is to share just ourselves honestly and you know, it was vulnerability in as many places as possible because I think doing that creates connection and you like we were talking about in my personal definition of healthy, like it's feeling connected, that is happening as we speak, you know, like I feel connected to you, even though we're not seeing each other, you know, we are just talking to each other. That came up in my conversation with Amy Porterfield too. And I don't know, I just think it's important. And it's true what you said like a lot of people are asking me about this essay and I am so grateful for that. And I'm happy to talk about every recipe in this book and to talk about, you know, how to get out of a cooking rut and all those like really practical things but I am so happy that most of my conversations about this book are just about this essay. And that makes me feel just very happy that I included it even though to be totally honest, I was a little scared to include it because it is incredibly vulnerable and incredibly personal, but I think that's why it's worth including, because I think it does help us feel connected and feelings that at least for me have left me often feeling pretty lonely. Like I know when I have not felt great about my body, it feels just to me, just, I feel very alone and, you know, in sharing this and, and getting to talk to you about it and getting to talk to friends and family about it and getting to, you know, hopefully potentially talk to readers about it, you know, I feel less alone. And I, I hope, I dunno maybe I can ask you if that's okay. Like how do you feel? I don't want to turn it on you but..
Suzy Chase: Well, I wanted to share this with you and it's so super vulnerable and it's like totally off the subject. So when you were at Dean and DeLuca doing a talk, gosh, like four years ago, I remember walking in and thinking, where am I going to sit? Cause I always feel like I'm taking up too much space. So I sat way in the back. Um, and so I just, I thought about that when I was reading that essay of yours, but my thing isn't overeating, I think it's holding onto weight as a suit of armor, which is like a whole, whole other episode. But, um, yeah, it's just crazy. And Amy asked you if you eat everything you want to eat, which I thought was a really interesting question. So what did you say?
Julia Turshen: I said I do and I'm grateful. I do. And I can't remember if I said this to her or not, but I will say to you that I haven't always done that. You know, I'm saying that right now, but there were years of me not eating what I wanted and honestly having no idea what I actually wanted. So me answering that question very simply with just like a yes, there's like a big footnote to that. Yes. Right. So, um, yeah. Anyway, yes, I do eat everything I want and I'm so happy to be in a place to do that.
Suzy Chase: And it's almost like you unlocked something for her because she said she doesn't eat everything she wants.
Julia Turshen: Yea and I just totally identify with that as I identify with you, you know, I remember that that event and that evening, and I very much identify with sitting in the back row of something. I identify with holding on to body weight as armor. You know, I was very bullied as a kid about my weight and it was for me. I mean, I don't, I obviously don't know, you know, your background with this, but I can share that for me. It was like the self fulfilling prophecy type of thing, because in feeling bullied, I wanted to have some armor and for me, the easiest way to maintain that was to maintain, um, I don't know, uh, a larger body and, but that's what was causing the bullying so it was like this round and round circle thing that I just felt very caught in. So I don't know when you share that, like, I that's, that's where my mind goes for my self, but, you know, I think all of our stories are probably different, but connected in some way. And I think all of our stories are really important and worth sharing. And I should also add, I feel like no one has to share anything in general. And like, if you don't want to, and you don't feel supported to, or safe to. I feel like a lot of what I've been saying is just with the, I dunno, I just feel like that's worth tacking onto it. Like, I don't think there should be any pressure to share anything, but I also think if, if sharing feels like something you want to do, I just, I hope to be part of something that helps you feel safer to do that.
Suzy Chase: Well thank you, women around the world are gonna thank you because this is something no one talks about.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting because I, I don't know I had this like very like meta moment the other day, because I got some early copies of it a couple of weeks ago and I gave one to a friend and she gave it to her teenage daughter and she sent me a message saying that she was really grateful. I had included that essay, you know the one we're sort of talking about in the book and her daughter was sitting, reading the cookbook, kind of like a novel, like she was sitting like in an armchair reading it, like not in the kitchen and she just said, you know, I'm so happy that essay is in there and my teenage daughter' is reading it and I, I really think about the people I write for and for the most part I am picturing at most times my mother-in-law and my father, these are the two people in my life who cook at home all the time who want, you know, simple recipes, who want things that taste really good, but don't want to put in a ton of effort. Like they are my readers that I always have in mind. I don't know. I just don't think about teenagers so much when I'm writing. And it just, I like almost, I mean, I got teary when she messaged me because I was like, I didn't picture a teenage girl reading this and wow I'm so happy she is and then I felt a lot of compassion for my younger self. Like I wish I had read this when I was 14. Right. Like what would that have felt like? So I don't know if you asked me a question and if I'm answering it or what, but I just, I don't know. I just wanted to share that.
Suzy Chase: No, I love it. It's going to resonate with so many people.
Julia Turshen: Well, thank you. And I'm just, I'm glad it resonated with you. You know, I think that it means a lot to me. And if, you know, if it's with more people great, but you know, one person is a lot in my book, so thank you.
Suzy Chase: So this cookbook is super personal as we've talked about, and I love on page 167 you have your grandma Beatrice. Can I just say she was gorgeous? That photo is amazing. Isn't it? There is nothing I love more than that flapper era, chin length bob and her cigarette is like the best. Can you tell me about her and her Bubaleh?
Julia Turshen: I pronounce it bub-a-lah , that's how my mom pronounces it, but I am, I'm open to feedback.
Suzy Chase: I have no idea. I'm from Kansas.
Julia Turshen: Thank you for asking about her. I can tell you what I know about her and I guess the first thing is that I never knew her. She died long before I was born. This is my mother's mother. I'm talking about her name was Beatrice. And she is someone who is incredibly important to me, even though I never knew her and even though we didn't cross paths, you know, in this life. So she was a baker's daughter in the old country. My family, my mom's side of the family is originally from basically like Belarus. I mean, I feel like borders shifted a lot so sort of like Russia, Poland, that area, they ended up settling in Brooklyn where they opened a bread bakery and so my mother is also a baker's daughter and my mom and her sisters, my aunts grew up in the bakery and my grandmother never read or wrote any language. She was totally illiterate and she worked the register at the bakery cause she was like very good with numbers. And I basically have spent my life asking my mom and my aunts, both of whom have also passed away just so much about their mother. I don't know. I just wish I knew her and this picture of her is on a page with a recipe of hers that my mom shared with me for something called Bubaleh, which are these really interesting pancakes made out of Matzah meal, which was crushed Matzah crackers, mixed with eggs and you whip the egg whites to get some like, you know, air into these because otherwise they would just be like baseballs. They're basically like Matzah balls, but you fry them in butter instead of boil them. That's basically what they are and they're delicious. And I had never heard about them. My mom told me about them and then I asked her more questions and I researched some recipes and then my mom was over at her house one day and I was thinking to include this recipe. And I made them having never eaten them before. Having never made them before. And my mom took a bite and was like, this tastes just like my mom's. And that to me is the point of cookbooks and the point of writing recipes. I think, you know, I get to put a picture of my grandmother, who I never met into this book. I get to kind of memorialize her in this way. And that feels really valuable to me. And, you know, to have that memory about the recipe and to that moment with my mom and, you know, it felt like my grandmother was there even though she won't be here and, you know, this is all kind of like heavy, but I think that is the power of not just food, but also writing it down and sharing it. And, you know, and now this recipe that I had never heard about before that I didn't grow up eating, you know, I now get to share it and it can be part of other people's stories and lives. And that to me is like the coolest part about a cookbook, because you get to share your stuff, which is great, but then it becomes other people's stuff. And to me, that's so cool and special.
Suzy Chase: The other night, I made your recipe for Kale and Mushroom Pot Pie on page 24. You said in the book that this recipe is hearty and satisfying and you were not kidding. Can you describe this dish?
Julia Turshen: I'm so excited to hear you made it. It is so delicious. So it's like a vegetarian pot pie and it contains kale and roasted mushrooms and some carrots and then normally pot pie is like a chicken pot pie normally has like a bechamel sauce, which, is flour and butter you cook in a pan, you add some milk and, you know, that's the basis of many wonderful things, macaroni and cheese and so on, but that requires like another pot and I feel like it can come out kind of like lumpy, which like, I think really puts off especially beginning cooks and stuff. So instead of that, I just add like half a cup of sour cream to all these wonderful flavorful vegetables, and then a whole package of Boursin cheese, which is like a soft goat cheese, I think most people know, but if anyone doesn't it is so good. I love that stuff. Um, so when I was working on this recipe, I'm thinking about, you know, how can I make this creamy, like a pot pie, but also like, if I'm going to make something creamy, like I want that texture and that kind of like luscious feeling to come with as much bang for that buck as possible. So do I want just like a plain bechamel that is creamy, but maybe it doesn't have a ton of flavor? No, I want to add cheese, it has garlic and herbs already in it that you don't have to chop or anything. So it's just like a magical ingredient here. So that's the filling. And then on top, it gets puff pastry, which I just take one sheet and again, thinking about what are things that usually put off readers from making a recipe? I think one is making homemade doughs sometimes, and another is like crimping edges. Like that instruction tends to like intimidate a lot of people. So I did something that was just kind of fun, which is you take that sheet of puff pastry and you just cut it into a bunch of triangles and then you sort of shingle them on top of each other and it looks really beautiful. It's a very striking, it's kind of like fish scales, but it also is just really easy and you don't have to roll anything out and you don't have to crimp any edge or anything. And it kind of leaves a little room for some of that filling to sort of poke through. And that also means a lot of the steam will cook off when it goes in the oven. So it's very practical too so it just basically is this really delicious, very hearty dish full of wonderful vegetables made as easily as possible, but yeah, with just like as much flavor as possible and great texture too, you get that like crunchy puff pastry thing on top. So as I'm describing it, I'm like, I think I need to make this tonight too.
Suzy Chase: You do because it's so fast and easy.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. And it's also nice too 'cause you can make like the filling ahead, you can make the whole thing ahead and just warm it up later. Like it's a very forgiving things. So I'm so happy you made it.
Suzy Chase: To my segment called Last Night's Dinner where I ask you what you had last night for dinner.
Julia Turshen: I had basically what I was describing to you earlier. We had chicken soup. I had actually made the chicken stock. Um, I didn't use my beloved Better Than Bouillon.
Suzy Chase: Sorry, Better Than Boullion.
Julia Turshen: I mean I'm glad to know for when I need it but yeah, over the weekend, it's Tuesday now when we're recording over the weekend I made a big pot of chicken soup with the whole chicken. So last night we had the rest of it or the remainder of it. And there were some greens in it, but then I added to kind of stretch it out a little, add some more vegetables. I chopped up some carrots and we had a random zucchini at our fridge so I chopped that up and then I did something I've been doing a lot lately that is so good and basically right before we eat the soup, I add a little bit of minced, fresh garlic and just stir it in and I just love garlic basically, but that like raw garlic at the end, you know, it's like, it's hitting the like boiling soup so it's not like eating just straight, raw garlic, but it just, it's so delicious to add a little minced, fresh garlic, right at the end and then we have some leftover cooked whole wheat pasta in the fridge that I made the other night. So we mix that in. So we basically had Chicken Vegetable Noodle Soup with some Parmesan on top and then I had a small scoop of Haagen-Dazs vanilla ice cream and then that was early, we've been eating really early and then I later made some popcorn. So that was my entire evening.
Suzy Chase: Perfect! Where can we find you on the web and social media?
Julia Turshen: Sure, my website it's just my name, JuliaTurshen.com It has all the information about the book, all the wonderful places you can order it, all the stuff about I'm doing like a really fun virtual book tour. We're all going to have conversations like the one we just had, which is, you know, what an amazing way to get to spend my time. So all of that is there. And then I'm on Instagram at just @Turshen just my last name. I'm also on Twitter @Turshen, but I barely go on Twitter. So yeah, I think that's all the places.
Suzy Chase: I'm still bitter that you have @Turshen I want @Chase, but I think that's taken.
Julia Turshen: Yea I feel like your name probably more harder to land on that than mine, but yeah, I feel like, I didn't think about like my brother or cousins or, you know, other people who share my last name. I should have, you know, maybe use my first name too, but anyway, I got it so...
Suzy Chase: Yeah. Sorry people. Oh, well. Thanks so much for your meals that don't try to wow us, but hug us and thanks so much for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.
Julia Turshen: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate just the time and thoughtfulness you give to so many of us cookbook authors, and it's just always a pleasure to talk to you. So thanks for having me on.
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