The Sweetness of Doing Nothing | Sophie Minchilli
Intro: Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table, talking to cookbook authors.
Sophie Minchilli: My name is Sophie Minchilli, and my first book is The Sweetness of Doing Nothing: Live Life the Italian Way with Dolce Far Niente.
Suzy Chase: In the book you wrote, "My mother is an American completely in awe of everything Italian. In contrast, my father, a man from the deep Italian south, takes all the country's beauty and traditions for granted." Now, are you more like your mother or your father?
Sophie Minchilli: I would say I'm a bit of both because growing up, I was more like my father. So all of this beauty that surrounded me constantly, I was taking for granted. And it was only after college that I became more like my mother, where all of this beauty around me became sort of extraordinary and I felt so grateful and started appreciating it.
Suzy Chase: I had your mother Elizabeth on the cookbook podcast for her book The Italian Table last March, a year ago. And so she said you were going to school in London and came back to Italy and she convinced you to work with her. Could you tell me a little bit about that?
Sophie Minchilli: Yes. I've lived in Rome, Italy, my whole life, and it was only in university that I decided to actually move away. And I figured I spoke English and this was my chance to live somewhere else. So I went to London for three years. The first year I liked it, and then I didn't anymore. I started to really miss the things that I had taken for granted as a kid. So Sunday lunches in the sun, having an aperitivo with my friends after work, the Italian summers at the beach. And so I think I moved back the day I graduated. I went to graduation with my suitcase and flew straight back to Rome. I was ready to leave.
Sophie Minchilli: And when I came back, I was in that phase of life when you don't really know what you want to do. There's endless by possibilities. And my mom had just started doing food tours in Rome. I remember she asked me if I wanted to try and do one, and I thought she had gone completely insane because at the time it was a new thing. And what is a food tour? I asked her like, "Why would anyone pay you to go to an Italian market and see how you clean artichokes or go try pizza or pasta? That's not a thing, mom." And she insisted. So I finally tried one and I fell in love and it's been my full-time job now, say at least eight years.
Suzy Chase: But you left out one point. Your mom is from St. Louis.
Sophie Minchilli: Yes. She's originally from St. Louis and then they moved around. They actually lived in Italy for a couple years when she was about 12. I guess they got sick of St. Louis and then moved to New York. And then she came back after university, after college and she never left. She met my dad, had a baby, me, and has been here ever since.
Suzy Chase: What does the term Dolce Far Niente mean? And also, what does it mean to you?
Sophie Minchilli: It literally translates to the sweetness of doing nothing. And to me it defines what the Italian lifestyle is. I feel like Italians have learned to... I mean, they've always lived this way, to take things very slowly. And when it seems like they're not doing anything, they're actually doing a lot. So taking a huge lunch break in the middle of the week, taking Sunday off completely from work, emails, phone calls, and taking walks with their friends and having drinks, playing a game of cards. Just all these little things that seem like you're not doing anything, they're actually doing a lot. So if you learn to relax, you will be more productive later on in your work life and whatever else you have to do.
Suzy Chase: I think this is something that we are focusing on right now in the United States and people call it self-care.
Sophie Minchilli: Whereas in Italy, it's just the way to live. I feel like in today's world especially, the more you do, the more you produce, the more you work, the more appointments you have and emails to answer, the more you feel like you're fulfilled and you have a place in society, but actually it's the opposite. We have to go back to thinking like, what were our grandparents doing to relax or to have fun? And it probably wasn't much, but I'm sure they were living a less stressful life than we were.
Suzy Chase: Yeah. In the book you say status is reflected in the amount of running around we do. The number of items checked off our to-do lists.
Sophie Minchilli: Exactly. I feel like, of course, things are changing in Italy as well, but people are still living in that way where they know how to slow down. And I feel like it's about routines. So they have these certain routines that they're very attached to and they're all about slowing down and they just won't let them go in Italy.
Suzy Chase: Most things you love about Rome have to do with food, but it's never just about the food you're sharing. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Sophie Minchilli: Yes. Just in general, the food tours I do in Rome and the week-long tours I do with my mom, they're food tours, but they're also about the whole culture that surrounds food. Sure I'll take you to my favorite coffee bar to have a coffee, but then we'll talk about what it means for an Italian to sit down and have a coffee, or stand up the counter and have a coffee. We'll go to a restaurant and eat pasta, but then we'll talk about like those ceramic bowls we're eating off of, who makes them, where do they come from? Who still makes ceramics in Italy? So we're talking about food, but we're also talking about everything that surrounds it.
Suzy Chase: The most sacred of all meals in Italy is Sunday lunch. If you are cooking Sunday lunch at home, someone will be preparing a tomato and meat sauce for the pasta, known as sugo. Could you describe your Sunday tomato sauce that was passed down to you?
Sophie Minchilli: I do the Roman version of that. My nonna is from the south of Italy. She was from the south of Italy. And that recipe I included in the book is a very typical recipe from the south. The one I actually do every Sunday is called [amatriciana 00:06:09], which is also in the book. And let's say, it's the Roman version of that. Amatriciana doesn't have meat, but cured meat. So it has guanciale which is the cured cheek of the pig, similar to pancetta, and tomato sauce and cheese.
Suzy Chase: And you said your last meal on earth would be amatriciana.
Sophie Minchilli: Exactly. It's my favorite thing. I made it this Sunday for everyone, but also whenever I go out to a restaurant, I always try and look at them menu because I think I'm going to order something different, but I end up ordering amatriciana. And when I was in college in London, of course, my mom would ship me like care boxes with all the things I needed to make amatriciana. And when I flew back for the weekends, that was the first meal I would have when I would come here. I might be a little obsessed with it.
Suzy Chase: Just a little.
Sophie Minchilli: Just a little.
Suzy Chase: What's the key to perfect carbonara?
Sophie Minchilli: I would say the key to any Italian dish is the ingredients. So just finding the best possible ingredients, the best pasta, the best eggs, the best cheese. Because you can follow a recipe step by step, but if you're using mediocre pasta, mediocre eggs, it's never going to taste like the one you have in Italy. So it's all about the ingredients.
Suzy Chase: In the book you write, "In Rome, artichokes are considered the holy figure of all vegetables. We wait all year for their season and once they're available, we eat them every day until they're gone again." I adore artichokes and I feel like I don't know how to properly clean an artichoke after reading your book. I usually just rinse it under the faucet in cold water, but you've given us instructions to help us master the art of artichoke cleaning. Could you walk me through your six steps?
Sophie Minchilli: If you come to Rome, in all the vegetable markets, you'll see people cleaning artichokes. And I film them a lot and I post them on my Instagram and I actually get a lot of negative reactions to it saying like, "Oh my God, they're wasting so much of it. We eat that here in our country. Why are you throwing it away?" So the first step to cleaning an artichoke is we take off all the outer leaves and these are too tough to eat. I know in some places people will steam the artichoke and then dip those outer leaves in butter or oil and then sort of scrape it off with their teeth.
Suzy Chase: Yes, that's what I do.
Sophie Minchilli: Yeah. So I think either you guys have a different variety of artichokes that has some more meat on the leaves, or Italians just don't want to... they don't do that. We don't dip things in butter. So we just want the artichoke to be cleaned in a way that when it's cleaned, we eat everything and nothing is left. The first step is to take off those outer leaves, which are way too tough to eat. And then we clean the top tip. We chop it off because the very tip of the leaves is too hard to chew. It's inedible. And then when our artichokes are in season, it doesn't really have a choke. So we don't have to clean that out. And the final step is cleaning the stem. So we actually eat the stem. We just take out that very outer layer of it, which is usually a light green color and inside it's white. So the white part we eat.
Sophie Minchilli: And then once it's cleaned, artichokes oxidize really, really quickly, that means they turn black. So we put them in a big bowl of cold water and lemon juice so they stay fresh.
Sophie Minchilli: In Rome, there's two ways that we eat it traditionally. One is [alla Romana 00:09:36], Roman style, and that's cooked in a big pot with some water, white wine, olive oil, garlic, and parsley. So it kind of stews them. They're very soft. And then the other way to eat it is Jewish style, alla Giudia and that's deep fried twice. It sort of opens up like a flower and the outer leaves become crispy like potato chips, but a lot of people don't fry at home. That's something we'll have when we go out to a restaurant as a special occasion.
Suzy Chase: This book covers so much. It's your love letter to Italy, food, family, and friends and leisure. And the last chapter is entitled: And finally. Would you share a few takeaways from that chapter?
Sophie Minchilli: The last chapter of my book called And Finally is a recap of the whole book. So it's ways that you can try and incorporate the Dolce Far Niente way of living into your life. And the first thing I say is find pleasure in the ordinary. Again, it's like stepping away from that mentality of doing more, achieving more, working more. We need to think of the things we consider ordinary in our life and appreciate them for what they are. So that Sunday lunch with our family, like that half an hour walk with our best friend in the afternoon, making coffee in the morning, all those ordinary things in our day-to-day life that actually bring us happiness if we sit down and think about it.
Sophie Minchilli: Another thing I speak about in the last chapter of my book is the concept of having a routine. So using routines to your advantage. As I was saying in the beginning of this interview, Italians love having a routine. They might not realize that they have routines, but they are very attached to them. So I would say move away from the busyness in your life and try and make little routines in your day or in your week, or even in your month that bring happiness to you. For me, it's very cliche, but Sunday lunch with my friends or family. I'll try and go like once a week or once every two weeks to the countryside, because I know that makes me very happy. So I make an effort to do that. I'll go out for drinks and dinner with my friends, at least once, usually twice a week.
Sophie Minchilli: I also, I love napping, but it's also a big part of Italian's day-to-day life. So taking a nap. If you can only do it on the weekend, try taking a nap in the weekend. A lot of Italians will take a little nap after lunch midweek, but I know that's not possible for all people. So I love napping and I couldn't recommend it more. So on the weekends, try and take a nap after your big Sunday lunch, it will change your life.
Suzy Chase: What is in store for you for 2022?
Sophie Minchilli: I'm thinking about new ideas for books. Of course, they'll revolve around the way of living and Italian recipes. And we're trying to figure out, we might do one me and my mom together. We thought that would be a cute thing to do.
Sophie Minchilli: Another thing I have in store for next year is adding some new food tours to my schedule. I usually do week-long tours together with my mom, but lately we've been having so many requests, which has been amazing that we're thinking of still doing some together, but also doing some on our own. So I have a few scheduled in Puglia, which is where my dad's from in the south of Italy. And I've been going there since I was a baby and it's just my favorite place in Italy. So it makes sense for me to lead my own week-long tours there.
Sophie Minchilli: And then I recently came to love and discover a part of Italy called Cilento which is right below Amalfi Coast. So people usually don't get there because they stop at the Amalfi Coast and it's just beautiful. It has some of the most amazing food I've ever had in my life. The people are just wonderful and they are so open to having tourists there. Beautiful scenery, town, sea, everything. So I'm working on a new week-long tour in that part of Italy
Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called Dream Dinner Party, where I ask you who you most want to invite to your dream dinner party and why? And for this segment, it can only be one person.
Sophie Minchilli: That's hard. The first thing I thought of was all of my friends' grandmothers, and all the grand mothers I know in general, just all together in one house, one kitchen, and we're all cooking together and eating together. That's my dream dinner party.
Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web and social media?
Sophie Minchilli: I'm on Instagram, and it's @SMinchilli.
Suzy Chase: And it's M-I-N-C-H-I-L-L-I?
Sophie Minchilli: Exactly.
Suzy Chase: To purchase The Sweetness of Doing Nothing and support the podcast, head over to cookerybythebook.com. And thanks so much Sophie for coming on Cookery by the Book Podcast.
Sophie Minchilli: Thank you so much for having me.
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