Kin | Marie Mitchell

Suzy Chase:                   When two podcasts collide, magic happens. Welcome to Dinner Party, the podcast where I bring together my two hit shows, Cookery by the Book and Decorating by the Book around here. We're all about cooking, sharing stories behind recipes, and creating a cozy home. I'm your host, Suzy Chase, a West Village wife, mom and homecook. Inspired by Martha Stewart trying to live in a Nora Ephron movie, surrounded by toile, plaid, cookbooks, decorating books and magazines, cooking in my galley kitchen and living my best life in my darling New York City apartment in the cutest neighborhood in the city, the West Village. So come hang out and let's get into the show.

Marie Mitchell:             Hi, I'm Marie Mitchell and I am here to talk about my debut cookbook Kin: Caribbean Recipes for the Modern Kitchen.

Suzy Chase:                   When it comes to your cookbook, what does the word Kin represent?

Marie Mitchell:             Kin for me is about family, first and foremost, but not necessarily thinking about it in the sense of it only being blood relatives. It's chosen as well as blood relatives, and that can be your blood relatives or it can also be those people that are friends who have seen you in all your forms when you are your happiest, when you're your saddest, when you're your most broke, when you're elevated, whatever way you are, it's about, I think kin is really about that community.

Suzy Chase:                   So Kin is a love letter to your Caribbean identity. The cookbook starts off with you talking about being able to find pockets of yourself that you thought were gone. Could you just talk a little bit about that and your reclaiming of connection?

Marie Mitchell:             When I was writing that introduction, it was probably a couple of years after my mum had passed because when I got the deal a few months later, my mum unexpectedly died from covid related complications. And for quite a long time I didn't actually say that I needed time to push the deadline back. And I think it took about nine months and I was just like, I can't write this book. So when I actually did come to the point of writing it, interestingly, I mean I really did struggle, but when we went to Grenada to shoot some of the scenes and to get that beautiful energy that flows throughout the book, I think it was the last place we were staying at. And I genuinely sat down on the veranda and was looking at the sea, and I had this moment because my legs were dangling in a hammock and I could really feel this sort of weight of my legs. And I just started thinking about the reality of where I was and who's walked before me, realizing the reality of me being in this space and that feeling of feeling like I was home and my heritage is actually Jamaican, but there's a relationship. That's why I think the word kin works so perfectly because it's about these threads that tether uss together. And then I got to talk about that and think about it in terms of my own family, but then also using it in a wider way to talk about the kinship of the islands.

Suzy Chase:                   So this cookbook, what you just kind of touched on is your history. So can you talk a little bit about your mom and dad, Earle and Barbara?

Marie Mitchell:             Yes. My mom and dad, well, I was about to say are fabulous people. They are, and they were fabulous people. I think as a partnership. They really just wanted to give my brother and I a foundation of freedom and space to kind of be who we wanted to be. My dad's very charming, very funny, very cheeky. And Mom I suppose is quite, there's lots of elements where she was similar and were always such incredible cheerleaders. I could always try something. I could always give something a go. I could always come back to the safety. And I think knowing that you have that is such an incredible privilege to then be able to feel free enough to go out and do the things, to try the scary things, to live outside of your comfort zone.

Suzy Chase:                   You write in the cookbook. While my upbringing exposed me to Caribbean culture, it was the death of my big brother, Richard that spurred me to start consciously engaged with my heritage. Talk a little bit about taking ownership of that history and how his untimely death was the catalyst for your career and food. And I'm so sorry,

Marie Mitchell:             Richard. I think because I was such a fuss eater and he absolutely loved all Caribbean food, whereas I would be like cherry picking my favorite things when he died, there was a part of me that wanted to preserve any part of his energy that I had known and loved. And even if I didn't necessarily engage in it, there was something that pulled me to that. And I think it also coincided around when I actually started the supper club, it was around me turning 30. And I think quite often that is a bit of a moment that a lot of people can have where you're sort of a bit like, who am I? What am I doing? I think it was the convergence of different things going on. But around kind of that turning 30, I really just felt as if I didn't know my Caribbean identity myself in a way that I wanted to.

                                    And that was probably just because there was a lack of knowledge around the Caribbean because even though it's so embedded in history around the world, we don't learn about it. We learn about things that are deeply connected to it, but we don't actually learn about it. And so I think for me, I was selfishly just wanting to understand who I was from a cultural perspective. I know where I am in terms of growing up in London and living there and being from the uk, but I didn't know enough about the Caribbean. And so I started to think about if I'm going to cook, what am I going to cook? And I was like, it's going to be Caribbean food. I don't know the recipes. And Richard's already gone. And when mom and dad go, if I don't learn these things, how will I connect to it? How will I know about it? And also then how do I pass that on to children if I have them? So I think it then became this catalyst for thinking about preserving, holding onto, and then also getting an understanding as to who I am and where I come from.

Suzy Chase:                   And then came Pops. You had to master both growing a supper club and learning Caribbean cuisine at the same time. How was that?

Marie Mitchell:             I think the early days, it was a lot of conversations and my dad and I cooking together quite a lot or cooking with my dad and my nan or with my nan. I remember one particular time I brought my nan to my flat and my dad and mum came over and we were just cooking fried fish and talking about it, and I was just asking lots of questions. So they were massively influential at the start in creating the foundation for me, understanding how to actually cook the things and what it needs to taste like, especially because I suppose my frame of reference was more limited because I hadn't eaten a lot of it previously. So they were definitely the foundation, which is why I called it pops just because my mom was a really good cook, but she didn't like it. My dad was the one that was always into cooking, and so it kind of felt natural to sort of name it after him. I suppose

Suzy Chase:                   In the cookbook you write about how the depth and complexity of your cultural history is evident in your food, but while that complexity can't be ignored, it remains widely misunderstood. So what are a few of the common misconceptions?

Marie Mitchell:             Everything that only thing we have in the Caribbean is jerk chicken or jerk, which is specifically Jamaican. There are thousands of islands. There are nuances and differences that are unique to the makeup of the countries and the way in which people move, the way in which ingredients made to someplace is not to others, the colonial influences. It's just so much more vast than I think people realize. One is that it's very much focused around the English speaking. Two is that we don't have a lot of vegetarian or vegan food. Plenty. You know you've got Rastafarianism, they eat a process of Ital, and that's all about having deep respect for the land and the food that goes in your body because it has energy and the way it's like a transference. And yet still that's something that either is ignored or not quite engaged with. And that's a massive misconception that I think a lot of the time people think it's always just meat and it's not. I think the other thing is probably just that everything's really spicy and that every Caribbean person loves spice. My mum was not into things that were spicy. She liked flavor, but wasn't mad for when things were too hot. So I think there's a few different misconceptions, and I think a lot of them essentially kind of go back towards knowledge and education really.

Suzy Chase:                   So in the book you write, "all human history is rooted in Africa, that's where the first food came from." Talk a little bit about Jamaican rice and beans and its roots.

Marie Mitchell:             I'm always fearful that I'm going to butcher this word, but it's

Suzy Chase:                   W-A-A-K-Y-E.

Marie Mitchell:             Waakye is what I think you say, how you say it, but for anyone that's listening, please correct me, please me. I'm not someone that wants to walk through life and be saying names incorrectly, so please correct me. But if it's Waakye, that's what we're referring to. But it's yes, W-A-A-K-Y-E, and they believe that that's where the origins of rice and peas come from. Now, the Caribbean, we call it peas even though it's beans because it comes from the West African in that it would've been a time of using beans for things and then based on what we would get access to, then it becomes like pigeon peas or different things, and it's a different bean that did exist or was used. And then as it's moved, it's become something else. And what was so beautiful about this dish is that when I went to Cuba, I could speak some broken Spanish, but it was definitely not brilliant.

                                    And we went to a government restaurant and we ordered a set menu and it came out and I was like, oh my God, rice and peas. And it's quite fascinating how excited I was by the notion that there was something of familiarity in this place that I wasn't necessarily expecting. And I ate it and I was like, this isn't rice and peas. It tastes completely different, but loved it. And that just led to me being really curious about the idea that you have these dishes that will present very similarly and then you eat it and it's a completely different flavor or completely different taste, but you can see the ways in which on this plate, that movement of those people would've led to that dish. So rice and peas is literally one of my favorite things in the entire world. I mean, anything that features coconut is so delicious. But then you also have this fragrance in the sweetness of the spring, onions and onions and garlic and thyme, which features very plentiful in my cooking, but also very much in the Caribbean, but quite a lot of Jamaican cuisine. It's a really beautiful example of these dishes that moved because they had to, but the ways in which they were preserved and held onto because it tied those people to home, it created or allowed for them to still have some sort of stability.

Suzy Chase:                   So tell me about the cover of the cookbook, the colors, the font, the bird.

Marie Mitchell:             Oh, Sankofa. The Sankofa. I feel very lucky that I got to get that as my cover. The fact that we did have that, I think it's such a powerful symbol of the themes that run throughout the book because ultimately it's a symbol that's talking about your past, informing your future. I think sometimes people feel as if you're looking into past too much that then you're not living. And I think that can be the case, but I also think you have to honor it. You've got to be respectful of what's happened and take it with you and use that as something that can take you forward. So having that on the front cover of the book is so special.

Suzy Chase:                   So why did you choose that particular bird?

Marie Mitchell:             Because Sankofa bird, it's an acan symbol, which is Ghanaian. So basically it's a proverb which sort of means go back and take it. I think that's a sort of rough translation on the cover. The feet aren't as obvious, but you sort of have the body facing away, leaning down, getting the egg with the feet the opposite way. And it's basically meant to represent your past, informing your future.

Suzy Chase:                   So if I wanted to do a Caribbean dinner party, what three dishes should I make?

Marie Mitchell:             I often tell people to do curry and roti because I love making roti. If people are willing, a lot of the time people use knives and forks, but I just love ripping the roti and then scooping the curry up with it. So it's a very handsy, tactile way of eating and then exploring the food. The curries that I cook on repeat all the time is the tomato and squash one. It's delicious. Great vegan curry that comes together in about half an hour or so. But if you like meat, I often cook the Colombo chicken curry or the Mitchell chicken curry is a quick one that can be done as well.

Suzy Chase:                   The Mitchell chicken curry.

Marie Mitchell:             Yeah, it's really good.

Suzy Chase:                   Was that from your dad?

Marie Mitchell:             It's definitely one that mom and dad would a version of one that mom and dad would cook on the weekends on Sunday. And because I was so fussy, I wouldn't eat a lot of things, but I would absolutely polish off this curry. So it's definitely one of those really nostalgic ones. And then if you want something a bit more anxious and rich, then you're going to do the curry goat or the curry lamb. I will say if you're going to have a starter, I would go for the pepper tofu. I love it and I love converting people to tofu, but if you want to not have the starter and you want to do dessert, then do the lime and ginger cheesecake because it's really quick to come together after you've had quite a delicious full meal of curry rot. It's a nice palate cleanser.

Suzy Chase:                   I want to thank you for the last part of the cookbook entitled We Resist. So can you take me just a little bit deeper into that part?

Marie Mitchell:             I mean, when I was writing that essay, it was a couple of years ago now, but I feel as if it's probably even more poignant now at the time that we're in. And it was talking about the reality of something I touched upon earlier in that I think there's a movement in that people are wanting to reclaim, wanting to take ownership of the narrative themselves. And that has presented a desire, I suppose to, I don't like the phrase of going back, but just heading where you find peace. And for some people that's going to Africa or to the Caribbean and then living there. And I think that's such a powerful way in which to resist because what's happened to a lot of people, particularly obviously I'm talking about the Caribbean here, but it does also exist in Africa, is that Hilary Beckels talks about Windrush movement specifically in terms of the UK, that that was the second middle passage because you had a stripping out of people that had lots of skills.

                                    The very skilled people then left the islands to go to the UK to rebuild after the war, which then left a lot of people no longer being in these countries to not nurture and build after the histories that they've had. But this idea of going back to where your lineage takes you to where you feel whole, to where you feel seen, where you get to blend in rather than being one of, at times that's not always the case, but in some places it's such a strong notion of resisting. But I also think it's about finding ways to center your joy that's so powerful and that is one of the strongest ways of resisting.

Suzy Chase:                   So now for my total non-sequitur, now for my segment called The Perfect Bite where I ask you to describe the perfect bite of your favorite dish.

Marie Mitchell:             So I'm going to go with what immediately came into my head, and I am, it's a spring day somewhere. I'm strolling and I'm walking past a patty shop and I go in,

Suzy Chase:                   Wait, what's a patty shop?

Marie Mitchell:             It could be a Caribbean takeaway or specifically, normally it's a Caribbean takeaway, but it's ones that sometimes you get ones that just sell patties or a few other bits and pieces, but they'll always be patties in there.

Suzy Chase:                   Okay, go on.

Marie Mitchell:             Yeah. So I'm strolling. It's spring day, I've got a light jacket on, and then I'm walking past a Caribbean takeaway or patty shop, and I go in, I get a chicken patty, and then I come outside and I'm eating it in the paper bag, the flaky delicious pastry. It's like crumbling in the bottom of the pack and I finish it and then I rip the bag open and I eat all the crumbs. And that is absolutely the most perfect bite. That first bite I take where it's mostly just like the edge of the pastry and then that last bite and my perfect bite.

Suzy Chase:                   Where can we find you on the web and social media?

Marie Mitchell:             My website is marie mitchell.co uk. Yay. I actually have a website now. It's only taken me nine years. We, yes, I know. And then I'm on Instagram and it's Marie Mitchell.

Suzy Chase:                   Well, Marie, thanks for bringing us community, joy and kinship, and thanks for coming on the show.

Marie Mitchell:             Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Suzy Chase:                   Okay, so where can you listen to the new Dinner Party podcast series? Well, it's on substack suzy chase.substack.com. You can also subscribe to Dinner Party for free on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Additionally, the episodes will be available on both Decorating by the Book and Cookery by the Book. Long story short, you'll be able to listen to it virtually everywhere. Thanks for listening. Bye.