Family Style | Peter Som
Suzy Chase: When two podcasts collide, magic happens. Welcome to Dinner Party, the podcast where I bring together my two hit shows, cookery by the book and decorating by the book around here. We're all about cooking, sharing stories behind recipes, and creating a cozy home. I'm your host, Suzy Chase, a West Village wife, mom and home cook. Inspired by Martha Stewart, trying to live in a Nora Ephron movie, surrounded by toile, plaid, cookbooks, decorating books and magazines, cooking in my galley kitchen and living my best life in my darling New York City apartment in the cutest neighborhood in the city, the West Village. So come hang out and let's get into the show.
Peter Som: Hi, my name is Peter Som and my new cookbook, Family Style: Elegant Everyday Recipes Inspired by Home and Heritage is out now.
Suzy Chase: You've had a long and successful career and fashion, but in recent years you've expanded into the culinary world, entertaining and lifestyle. So what inspired this evolution?
Peter Som: Well, I think it's an interesting question because I've sort of realized it all falls under this idea of a word that is bandied about a lot, which is lifestyle, how you live your life, and being able to make choices on what we wear and what we eat, what we put in our homes. We're very lucky to have these choices and for many years it's been about, at the core, a creative approach to how you live your life and what you put on your body and what you eat. I've always loved effortless, joyful clothes. I've always said I designed happy clothes. I still do design clothes and I think a happy clothes, and I really want to bring joy into the life of whoever wears those clothes. And I think the same approach can be said to my cooking. I want the cooking and the act of cooking and those everyday moments to bring joy. That was really the goal. There's this term we use in fashion called front of closet clothes. These are the pieces of clothing that you reach to every day and then you want to wear all the time. That perfect sweater, that perfect easy dress you just throw on you feel great. And I think that's my approach with recipes too.
Suzy Chase: Have you eaten? You wrote, that was always how grandma greeted me when I stepped into her apartment. Sometimes it was a voice from the kitchen rising above the sing song of the rice cooker and the hum of the s-tove fan. So take me back to when you were just tall enough to see over your grandmother's kitchen counter. And she was in San Francisco, right?
Peter Som: Yep, she was. Exactly. So I was really lucky. I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up in Mill Valley, which is right across the Golden Gate Bridge. My parents worked in the city. My grandmother lived in the city, and so I probably saw my grandmother once a week from the day I was born until the day I went to college. We were very close. So going into her apartment, she lived in an apartment that was next to Ghirardelli Square. You can still see them, but it's two sort of modern buildings that kind of look out over the bay. So those smells and sounds of walking into her kitchen. It was a combination of something always cooking short ribs or a chicken in the oven, or she loved baking her apple cake, which she baked. And then it was a combination of that. And the grandma smells sort of like powder and perfume and orchids, which don't actually smell right. But to me, they always were in tandem or her African violets, which she loved. And I would always go straight to the kitchen, which is right there, but I'd always look left because there was a large sliding door to the balcony. And then from out of there you could see Alcatraz and the bay. And those are really core memories for me of her.
Suzy Chase: Now in the cookbook, you talk about family style and then there's a certain etiquette that comes with it. Did she teach you that etiquette?
Peter Som: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And so that's why I had to put it in the cookbook because it's something that was so ingrained in me, both my grandmother and my mom from young age at those long Chinese banquets, there was definitely an etiquette. First of all, patience is important. There's lots of food on that lazy Susan. So some of the tenants of family style eating at a big banquet or at the dinner table are you really only take a small portion. There's going to be more the second time around, take only the food that's closest to you on the platter, don't start reaching to the far side of the platter and fishing around. You just kind of get what's right there. And this is something that is controversial, but always use serving spoons. Don't use your own chopsticks that you're putting in your mouth and then fish around for food on the platter in the cookbook.
I do say that if you're with your close family, your core family, that rule could be nixed. But my mom would object most vigorously and say that serving spoons should be used at all times. And I tend to agree actually. And I think just a few others, you always serve the people next to you first, especially if they're elder your elders, which in Chinese culture, respecting your elders is a very big deal. You always serve those next to you first until they start saying, oh, just serve yourself and then you relent. These are definitely rules that have been ingrained in me, so I had share.
Suzy Chase: Now, has your fondness for family style evolved over the years? Was there a time when you didn't love it?
Peter Som: Believe it or not, no. I think it's not just in Chinese food, but in a lot of most homes sitting down at the dinner table, big platters of food are put down. I mean, look at Thanksgiving. That's the ultimate family style meal that crosses cultures and whatever your background is, it is about at the core, big beautiful platters of food put down on the table. Everyone gathers around and it's about breaking bread or in my case, sharing rice.
Suzy Chase: I know for years you've had a huge binder of recipes. Was this the jumping off point for the cookbook?
Peter Som: So yeah, for many years, well, I still have them. I have these two massive binders that have those clear plastic sheet covers and it's years of pages torn out of magazines, Xerox family recipes, recipe cards that are just dropped into the little sleeves and they, for many years were the backbone of my cooking. And so I think in part that inspired the cookbook. But it's interesting, what really inspired the start of the cookbook was my grandmother's recipe notebook that sparked this whole journey. So my grandmother actually passed away 20 years ago, and my family still kept the apartment that she lived in, that one with that great view of the bay and for family to stay when they came into town. And certain things were just never, they were just put in boxes. So eventually things had to be really cleaned out. And one day we opened this drawer of this desk and there was this little notebook that nobody knew about.
My mom never knew about this notebook, and it was a spiral bound notebook that had recipes written down with the date the page was numbered, the recipe, her notes, who she got the recipe from. This is like early Pinterest, right? And it was a combination of her cursive Chinese writing. And to me, this is something that sparked this entire journey. And actually in the cookbook, I have pages from this notebook in there, and it's interesting, it's most, you hear about most family recipes and they're like, oh, my grandma just did a pinch of this, a pinch of that. My grandmother was very organized. She was actually a pharmacist by training in Hong Kong, which in the 1920s was very rare for a woman. So it's a really a combination of all these recipes I've made for many years from this binder plus this sort of journey of this notebook that inspired the cookbook.
Suzy Chase: This cookbook is all about bringing out that individuality case in point on page 59, charred broccoli and chili crisp and honey and drum roll Parmesan. Could you talk a little bit about this recipe?
Peter Som: Absolutely. This is actually one of the first recipes I developed for the cookbook. It was actually in my cookbook proposal. And at the end of the day, for me, it's all about flavor and wherever it comes from. Over the years I've come to depend on this arsenal of flavor bombs that live in my fridge and my pantry, things that can turn any raw ingredient at any time, whether it's a Tuesday you get home from work or Saturday for a big meal and turn it into a delicious dish, hoisting, Parmesan, anything that brings umami, anchovy, paste, tomato paste. These are all things that bring flavor. And when used in different combinations, it's kind of magical. Once you kind of understand flavor and the balance and the thought process behind things, you can really have fun in the kitchen.
Suzy Chase: It's so funny because the chili crisp and the parm, they live together in my fridge right next to each other. I've never once thought of putting them in one dish.
Peter Som: I think it's interesting. It's the chili crisp brings a little bit of heat, it brings the salty, it brings a touch of sweet, and then you have again, the Parmesan, which again brings some salty, it brings another level of umami. It's all about flavor, wherever it comes from.
Suzy Chase: So I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about your West Village apartment as I am a long time West Villager. I've lived here since 1996.
Peter Som: I moved into my apartment in 96 as well.
Suzy Chase: You did?
Peter Som: Yes. Yes.
Suzy Chase: My first apartment was on Perry Street and I moved here from Kansas City and I said, is this safe? And my real estate agent was like, what? Isn't that funny?
Peter Som: This village, I think, has always had that charm, that small town feel, which I think I'm sure we both love.
Suzy Chase: It's very sweet. Anywho, I could go on. I love the West Village
Peter Som: So much. I could too. Absolutely.
Suzy Chase: So as a fashion designer, you're known for your elegant sportswear, full of print pattern and color, and you've brought that sense of whimsy and fun into your West Village apartment, which are actually two apartments, hello, Andy Cohen, that you've put together.
Peter Som: He has a few more attached.
Suzy Chase: How fabulous is that? Can you chat a little bit about your home and your love of color?
Peter Som: I moved in and it was a one bedroom in 1996 and 10 years later, I happened to be leaving my apartment and unbeknownst to me, I saw the door to the next door unit open and it was a studio and they were having an open house. And if I hadn't walked out of my door at that moment, I probably would've never really, I've may have missed the boat. So I combined my apartments in 2008, 2009, and expanded the kitchen to be, I guess really my dream kitchen. My previous kitchen was such a tiny little postage stamp of a kitchen, which is for the West Village and for pre-war buildings, it's pretty common. So to have a big kitchen is great. The apartment overall is, I guess you can say has been curated and built over time. It's personal. Every piece was picked, whether it's the artwork or piece of furniture was picked with thought. And over time, I've left walls empty for years until I found the right mirror. So these are really pieces that each have meaning, have a story were really thought about. At the end of the day, there's no real theme or era. And for me, the philosophy is if you like it, that's the through line. That's what's going to connect everything. That's what makes a home feel personal
Suzy Chase: And space in the West Village. That's what makes it feel personal space.
Peter Som: Yes, yes, exactly. I know, I know. The West Village can be tight.
Suzy Chase: Yes,
Peter Som: Yes.
Suzy Chase: Take it from me. So I want to chat about your kitchen. I'm obsessed with your stainless steel backsplash and I love how it reflects light. And I also want you to talk about your 1920s lights that are hanging overhead.
Peter Som: Oh, you can see them actually right there.
Suzy Chase: Yes,
Peter Som: There. I think having lived in my apartment for a long time before the renovation, I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted an island, but I am a messy cook. I admit it. So I needed, you can sort of see here, I needed a bit of a wall, a bit of a barrier between the kitchen and the rest of the living space. So this is semi-open concept, so when you sit down to eat dinner at the dining table, you don't see entire kitchen full of mess. But yeah, I have carrera marble countertops, which have their share of little stains and things, which I love. The stainless steel backsplash was really there because the kitchen is in the back of the apartment where it's quiet, which is why we're talking way back here instead of by the windows on Greenwich Avenue. But the stainless steel is first of all, classic, but it also reflects light, which is nice. It bounces light back a bit, which again, light in any apartment is important. It's funny, the kitchen, when I sort of had this new kitchen, I thought I will never be able to fill up this kitchen with stuff because it is so much bigger than I ever could imagine. And of course, many years on, it is Jenga inside my kitchen cabinets. It is Tetris, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, I love my kitchen. It's function first, of course, but I love how it looks.
Suzy Chase: I think we all grew up on Campbell's tomato soup, and you have your version on page 32, which includes yellow tomatoes and a surprising addition fish sauce. Can you chat a little bit about that?
Peter Som: Yellow tomatoes have a bit less acidity than red tomatoes. So I thought about the idea of making tomato soup with yellow tomatoes, which gives it just a sort of a softer, kind of gentler kind of flavor, a rounder flavor. And the fish sauce again, where one of my pantry staples, we didn't actually grow up with fish sauce. It's more southeast Asian than Cantonese. It's Thailand, Vietnam, et cetera. But fish sauce brings this deep, subtle back note of depth of flavor. Fish sauce, I guess you would say has this sort of funk to it. The tomatoes still are the Beyonce in this whole situation. The fish sauce is a backup dancer, which just really helps support the tomato. I grew up with Campbell's tomato soup. I think I was a latchkey kid growing up. I didn't really realize I was, but I was. And one of my favorite things to do when I got home was two crack open a can of Campbell's tomato soup, eat it with saltines. Watch Scooby Doo before my parents came home. That moment of calm before parents came home and homework had to be done and dinner had to sort of be made. I guess me and Andy Warhol have a great love of Campbell's tomato soup.
Suzy Chase: Who doesn't love fried rice? So what are your rules for making a spectacular fried rice
Peter Som: Using a day old rice.
Suzy Chase: Do you have to use day old rice? How come everyone says that?
Peter Som: Because fresh rice has too much moisture. And for fried rice, you do want the grains to be separate. You want them to actually sort of fall apart, kind of mix in with everything. Steamed rice, freshly steam rice. The grains has too much starch. They're going to stick together too much, and you're not going to have that sort of right sort of mouth feel. The other thing really is you need a hot walk. They call it wok hay in Cantonese, which is the heat of the wok, you need a hot wok, which means you need all your ingredients really prepared and ready to go because once you start putting stuff in, it goes quickly. For eggs, there's many different ways to do eggs. I love putting the eggs in first, getting them cooked in a thin layer, taking them out and cutting them into ribbons because I like how that looks.
But there are many, many variations. Other people just crack the egg right into the rice and mix it in to become more integral. So there are many different egg variations, all your onions and anything that's raw. You saute first and then you put in any of your mix-ins that have been cooked. I mean, again, fried rice was our go-to growing up for leftovers in the fridge. So anything that you're putting in that's already cooked, obviously just needs to be heated. You don't want to overcook things. And then it's really about seasoning. Again, that's personal for me. It's soy sauce and oyster sauce and sesame oil. As soon as everything's together and you have a little bit of crispy bits on the bottom of that wok, which is everybody's favorite part, you're good to go.
Suzy Chase: Let's say you're hosting a dinner party for six out of Family Style cookbook. Are you going to include fried rice?
Peter Som: I think for what I would cook from family style is everyone loves chicken. And one of my favorite chicken recipes in the cookbook is my hoist seed honey roast chicken. And it's actually on the cover as well. So it's really hoist seed is this a great thick sauce that is kind of almost like, I guess for better lack of a better word, like a barbecue style sauce. And so you have that with the sweetness of honey and the roast chicken and it's so delicious. So that what fried rice would be amazing. I would also add in a great vegetable. This recipe, it's green beans with pickled things, that's what it's actually called. And it's green beans with pickled root onions. I pickled the raisins. There's green olives, which are technically brine, not pickled, but again, something crunchy and bright, vibrant to match up with the chicken.
And then for dessert, I love a fruit dessert. I do have chocolate desserts in family style, but my take on mango pudding, which is again a classic sort of Chinese / Cantonese dessert, I do mine with a touch of Tahin, which again is what you may see rimmed around a margarita glass, which kind of brings me back to times on the beach in Mexico where people would walk by selling fresh mangoes and you'd get that little sprinkle of tahin and lime at the end. So fried rice to me is like a little black dress. It goes with everything.
Suzy Chase: So at the end of my street is Angie Mar's restaurant and she has her acclaimed LA burger first come first serve. She only makes nine a day.
Peter Som: Nine,
Suzy Chase: Not ten, nine. I'm dying to hear your take on this burger and your sauce.
Peter Som: She's one of my closest friends and I consider her burger like a gold standard of burgers. And so when you can't get that beautiful burger, I have a version in my cookbook that I love to make, and it's a chashu bacon cheeseburger. The Chasu bacon cheeseburger is kind of my ultimate take on my burger. chashu is sort of a Cantonese or Chinese style barbecue sauce in a way. It's sweet and savory and super delicious, and I mix it a little bit into the meat, but then I also take it and make sort of my take on the animal sauce from in and out. So I mix it with kewpie mayo and pickle relish and create this really, really anxious, delicious bread. It's not a clean eat, I guess any good burger is going to be a little messy. But yeah, when Angie's Burger is not available to me, if I'm somewhere else, I don't know, or out in the country for the summer weekend, this is one that I love to make.
Suzy Chase: So I adore people who read cookbooks as novels. That's what I do. What are a few of your bedside cookbooks?
Peter Som: Some of my favorites are anything Ruth Reichl has written. I think my kitchen year was a combination memoir and cookbook, and I think that one is for me, one of my most favorites. I love any of Dorie Greenspan's cookbooks. Again, baking. I'm not a huge baker. And so sometimes reading about the baking is just as not quite just as good as eating it, but you get that a similar satisfaction. Another cookbook I love is Christina Cho's cookbook, Mooncakes and Milk Bread. It's those Cantonese flavors which I grew up with and I love so much. Another cookbook that I think when I read it was sort of a watershed moment in terms of how a cookbook can really educate and through storytelling is Jubilee by Toni Tipton-Martin, so much that I didn't know, I never was taught or I never really knew about the culture and the history behind so many dishes that we know and love
Suzy Chase: Now for my segment called The Perfect Bite, where I ask you to describe the perfect bite of a favorite dish, and it could be out of the cookbook.
Peter Som: So I have this one recipe, it's actually on the back of the cover, on the back cover because I loved it so much. It's udon with charred sardines and pecorino. It has mushrooms that get crisp, that hit of chili crisp, a little butter is mounted in there to get it really anxious. And that pecorino, again, that final salty finish, and I like to eat it actually with a seven minute jammy egg. It's a recipe that happens in minutes. It's in a bowl. You just kind of get a big spoonful of everything that yolk breaks and mixes in. That's I would say my perfect bite. I mean, you can't go wrong with noodles, right?
Suzy Chase: No, you can't. So where can we find you on the web and social media?
Peter Som: You can find me@petersom.com and at peter som on Instagram. And if you're on TikTok, I am at Hello Peter. Som.
Suzy Chase: Thank you so much for coming on the show, Peter. This was a lot of fun.
Peter Som: Thank you, Suzy. This was complete fun.
Suzy Chase: Okay, so where can you listen to the new Dinner Party podcast series? Well, it's on substack suzy chase.substack.com. You can also subscribe to Dinner Party for free on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Additionally, the episodes will be available on both Decorating by the Book and Cookery by the Book. Long story short, you'll be able to listen to it virtually everywhere. Thanks for listening. Bye.
